Excuse me, are you listening?
Saturday, July 16, 2011

Dear Readers,

Oftentimes, we don't want to discuss issues that impact us.  We get emotional and would prefer not to talk about it for fear of the way others will react to us.  I found a quote while browsing the web and thought it was interesting.  I posted it because Ms. Mildred Loving said it and I wondered how people would respond to it.  I did not realize that so many would respond. 

We received 20 likes, which is great for a Facebook comment and at the time of printing we were still receiving comments.  I posted it to see what people would say.  I got a lot more than I ever thought.  This may be graphic reading for some and for others you may want to chime in.   Some of the names have been changed and the posts have been slightly modified for corrections and clarity.  Please email us if you do at tncp@comcast.net.

“I believe all Americans, no matter their race, no matter their sex, no matter their sexual orientation, should have that same freedom to marry. Government has no business imposing some people's religious beliefs over others. Especially if it denies people civil rights.” -  Mildred Loving of Loving vs. Virginia
   
   
Rina N Risper

In 1958 Richard Loving and Mildred Jeter decided to get married. But because Mr. Loving was White and Ms. Jeter was Black, their marriage was considered illegal in their home state of Virginia.
   
Missionary Kenethia Calloway
I do not agree.
   
Mark Gillengerten
John McCain and so many others like him will not be looked on favorably by history. Like the McCarthy anti-communist hearings. Well done New York. (New York recently approved legalizing gay marriage.)
   
TerrySkysthelimit Wells
Well I don't know Rina. I mean I agree with you to some extent. But not all. When it comes to marriage that's a big step. Should they go through the things married couples have to go through. Such as Buying a marriage certificate, being able to claim your loved one on their insurance, half on the mortgage and being able to divorce. They should have to pay for it also. But if they're getting married in a church instead of what they call a commitment ceremony. Then no they don't deserve to have that freedom. In the Lord's house. It has always been man and woman getting married. Not man/man or woman/woman.

Mark Gillengerten
Marriage is a big step?? Liz Taylor, Brittney Spears, Donald Trump, Hugh Hefner. Certain people have made the "sanctity" of marriage a joke. Any 2 consenting adults have this right.
   
Rina N Risper
This is a A QUOTE! There is no arguing what someone else said. She went through a lot to be married and she is expressing her opinion. Until you have been there yourself... in the same situation, we can't judge. I can see why there are some people "in the closet" or "on the down low". What a boring world it would be if we were all the same :) Thank you for all your responses. Love people.

Joan Scott
I realize that this is a quote, but if we are truly "one nation under God", then why aren't we honoring what God has said is to be considered a marriage between a man and a woman? I am not religious but I am saved and am honored to have a relationship with the Lord. No judgment here, the word of the Lord is the word of the Lord...
   
Rina N Risper
OK... so what if you believe in another religion... what if the word of the Lord is only another way of believing for some. When we go to the hospital to have heart surgery are we asking about the religion of our doctor. We just want to get fixed and feel better.

Please comment as you please. I love open dialogue. Thank you all for your honesty and commentary.
.   
Mark Gillengerten
This is about law, not necessarily religion. But Joan, aren't some marriages between a man and a woman an insult rather than honoring god? Anna Nicole Smith, any Kardashian wedding...etc.
   
Tammy Pitts-Williams
Everyone deserves a fair shake in life...gay, straight, black, white, yellow. I love all my friends gay or straight. :)
   
Harry Clay
We are supposed to have a clear separation of church and state. The reason that our nations early leaders wanted that separation is because once you begin making laws or rules based on any religion you will ultimately deprive someone else of their freedoms.
   
Drea Von Moonshadow
What the U.S. needs is more religious freedom, not less. Then people are not judged by the standards of one particular version of one particular religious tradition. Our legislation is informed by the Christian religion entirely too much. "one nation under God" was only added to our Pledge of Allegiance in 1954. We only live in a "Christian Nation" because that happens to be the majority and the majority has effectively silenced, bastardized, destroyed, or invalidated most other religions. I get so sick and tired of hearing the bible as empirical evidence for discriminating against entire groups of people and denying them the opportunity to live a full life loving whom they please. The bible says a lot of things and until I see a big campaign from some vehemently anti-gay churches that call for an end to shell-fish eating, wearing mixed fibers, or I don't know ADULTERY or DIVORCE, I will continue taking the words of those who wish to diminish my existence with a grain of salt....
   
Joan Scott
This kind of talk always sparks so much emotions but just as I said before I am in no way judging everyone has the freedom to do as they please...I am truly entitled to my opinions just like everyone here. I love all of God's people, I just don't like the lifestyles that people choose to live and I don't have to like it, it's my choice. Marriage between a man and a woman is not a law in the Bible it's just a definition of what he (God) created marriage to be...again it's your choice what you believe in and just because people have made a mess of their marriages does not reflect on God in any way, that was their choice to mess the marriages up in that way.
   
Drea Von Moonshadow
That would be all well and good, if you believing that didn't deny me the rights that you have as a citizen. I don't care what is preached on the pulpit.  I care if I could visit my wife on her deathbed.  I care whether we could both have health insurance or the 1,500 other incentives that married people get in the eyes of the law.
   
Rina N Risper
It does spark emotion but I appreciate the honesty that both have. I would love for Joan and Drea to meet each other. There must be some connection even though we may agree to disagree.
   
Katrina Doxsie
Because we never were one nation, under god. The founding fathers were deists, who believed in a higher power, but wanted freedom of religion. Hence, the separation of church and state. Many of them were not even Christian. How can we act like something we never were? The Bible is an ancient text full of dashing infants against stones and bloody animal sacrifice. While I support your right to believe it is a holy special book, I ask you support my right to believe it is not. There are many things preached from the pulpit that Christians don't listen to. What makes gay marriage the worst of them? What about the pastor who flirts with the females of his congregation, and approaches them for favors, while he is married? What about the man who comes to church and then goes home and touches children in a way children should not be touched? What about the woman who sits in the front row, feeling guilty for that shirt she stole from the mall yesterday? What about those who judge gay people, without first removing the log from their own eyes? The separation of church and state must remain. I mean, once we let our government go Christian we then have to decided which of the 34,000 + interpretations (denominations) are correct.
   
Katrina Doxsie
BTW...I am straight. I am happily married to a wonderful man, and we have four amazing children.
   
Katrina Doxsie
To the person who stated that gay people have made a mess of marriage I had to chuckle. I support your right to that opinion, but I say marriage had its problems long before gays starting asking for rights. The reason this issue makes me so sick to my stomach is that the people trying to shut down gay marriage, or those who call it an abomination, are not taking two seconds to judge themselves. Have you been divorced? Committed adultery? Been full of pride or vanity at some point? Even now there must be a 'sin' you struggle with, because nobody is perfect. What makes your sin less of a sin than being homosexual? If you are a Christian listen to what your savior told you. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. When you ask anyone who does not support the Christian religion why they do not support it the most popular answers is, "They are hypocritical." And it's the truth in many cases. You cannot ban gay marriage and then tell me it's okay to force a nation to believe in your God. Why not believe in Allah? Or Ishtar? Or Zeus? Or Thor? The great thing about our country is the diversity. Life would be so boring if we were all the same. The Bible supported multiple wives in many places. The Bible's definition of marriage changes throughout, if we are honest. Live and let live. LOVE PEOPLE. Love should be the only religion in the world.
   
Joan Scott
Wow, first I never said that gay people made a mess of their marriages, I was referring to the references of Anna Nicole Smith and so on. 2nd I have friends and family members that are gay and whom I love very dearly, but again I don't have to like their lifestyle. And as far as what you said about what's going on in churches, you are absolutely right about the people and what they are doing is wrong but the purpose of the church is not suppose to condemn us but rather a place where we can learn about our God and fellowship with one another. I've never said that being gay was in anyway the "worst" and all that you have stated is true and each of us have different things that we have to battle with. God is love...it's amazing how we tell one another not to judge but as soon as someone disagrees with someone it's considered passing judgment...
   
Lisa Chase Patterson
I do my best not to judge. Judge not lest ye be judged and no sin is greater than another. I've got no room to judge anyone. I posted this on my profile last week.
   
"So let me get this STRAIGHT...Kelsey Grammer can end a 15 year marriage by phone, Larry King is on divorce #9, Britney Spears had a 55 hour marriage, Jesse James and Tiger Woods, while married, were having sex with EVERYONE, 53% of Americans get divorced and 30-60% cheat on their spouses. Yet, same-sex marriage is going to destroy the institution of marriage? Really?"

Katrina Doxsie
I apologize for my misunderstanding. And I am not judging anyone, including you, Joan. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I guess this topic intrigues me, because I watch silently as people hold signs that say god hates fags, and then go home and watch pornography. I think we should just love people and let them do what they want. It has no effect on you or I if a gay couple gets married, or if a white woman marries a black man. And anything that someone else considers 'sin' isn't their sin to worry about, unless they are committing it. So I don't understand the big deal.

Katrina Doxsie
I was once told I should never communicate my thoughts and opinions regarding religion, politics, or money. But I was never good at taking advice...lol. I didn't mean any negativity toward anyone with my comments. Just expressing my own. Have a great day everyone! I am off to be accomplished!
   
Joan Scott
I totally agree Katrina, there is a lot of fakeness going around in Christianity and there are two folds to that the world has a way of sweeping things under the carpet instead of dealing with things head on, there are some sick people who ...
   
TerrySkysthelimit Wells
I don't understand what being a "fag hater" has to do with pornos. And you all are saying everything bad about being married. But there is some good in it sheesh. Also gay people cheat also. It's not just "straight" people.

Katrina Doxsie
No, it was just an example, Terry. I am not suggesting that 'fag haters' are all porno watchers. The point is that the 'fag haters' are not without sin, so why are they out casting stones?

Katrina Doxsie
Oh, and I am a woman, as stated earlier, married to a wonderful man. There is tons good in marriage.
   
Vic Stafford
I have heard heterosexuals bash homosexuals on their "lifestyle." On the other hand, I've never heard homosexuals criticize heterosexuals. Never. Interesting.
   
Joan Scott
Really? I've read a lot of Christianity bashing on this thread alone and if you read through my post I never said a bad thing against homosexuality, only that I did not like the lifestyle.

Vic Stafford
@ Joan: I don't believe I was referring to you specifically.

Lisa Chase Patterson
On a funny note Vic...I've not heard them bash, but I've heard them "criticize", there's a difference, lol. Couple of my friendsare fashion "queens" and they will criticize a straight persons wardrobe in a heartbeat and have you on the floor laughing, lol.
   
Vic Stafford
@Lisa: That depends on if they were speaking the TRUTH! LOL!
   
Joan Scott
They're human beings, they criticize just like everyone else...

Katrina Doxsie
I was not bashing any religion, just to clarify. My point was that no one religion should be allowed to make decisions in government. There is good and bad in every religion, because there is good and bad in the human beings who created them. Period. No one religion, including Christianity, should be given more status than the other. Joan, please don't take my comments personal. As I did not intend them to be personal. And just as I criticize religions, I am sure others criticize their pet peeves. I have no problem with Christianity, other than it wants to take over the world. And while it has many great things about it, there are some things just not appropriate for the world. Especially the government, which creates laws in a country that was founded to fight religious tyranny. I find it ironic that a nation founded to free people from religion is called a religious nation. That's all. No personal attacks intended.
   
Rina N Risper
This has been a very interesting conversation. If anyone has objections to being in printed format please let me know. Everyone did an amazing job expressing their view. I am pleased that we can have open dialogue about issues that impact us everyday. Who said that Facebook is not for serious people is not posting the right statuses.
   
Joan Scott
I promise I am not taking this personal Katrina or Vic :)

Rina N Risper
Joan is an amazing person with a big spirit. Vic is just outspoken and radical.. love you Vic. Katrina loves everyone... this has been amazing... thank you for being my FB friends. This is great too because I think that you all are experts at being you.

Vic Stafford
Just making sure. Usually when religion is dragged into the debate the conversation gets muddled and circular. People do introduce "faith" into the conversation as if it were a trump card which does not promote clarification in the discussion. Faith should be personal and act as guidance in one's life.

Rina N Risper
As I said... Vic is outspoken... always putting out fires :) Pun intended. Have an amazing day!

Vic Stafford
@Rina: I'm certain Joan is an "amazing person." However, the term "radical" may have a negative connotation for most people. I prefer "critical thinker" who thinks outside of the box.

Rina N Risper
Super than I will make sure that I use "critical thinker" and that you are. Yes, you are right thank you for the correction. Love people!

Vic Stafford
To better understand a situation or issue, study and research will guarantee better understanding and appreciation. This not usually found on mainstream media. Scratch the surface; follow the money!

Joan Scott
 Just reading over the comments @Drea -I would never want your existence to be diminished, that's a harsh thing to say. Your existence is just as special and important as everyone else's!!! @ Rina thanks for the kind words!!! @ Vic I didn't drag religion into it, I simply made a comment based off of my own personal belief and I never once said that my belief was right and everyone else's was wrong in fact I agreed with some of the statements that were made about the people who are apart of my faith @ Katrina you made some valid points and I will continue to check myself and try live the life that reflects my beliefs....Have a great week!!!

Vic Stafford
On the contrary, Joan, the statement "the word of the Lord is the word of the Lord" qualifies as introducing religion into the conversation (early I might add.) Have a great week as well.

I am sure that this is not the end of this conversation but at least we are having it.  I applaud those who spoke honestly about their feelings, which we often do not have the opportunity to do.  I use Facebook as a way of engaging people.  It is amazing how one quote can cause so much emotion.

“There's nothing to fear, but fear itself” is another one of my favorite quotes by Franklin D. Roosevelt spoken during his first inaugural address in 1933.

The 1929 stock market crash was still impacting American life and the American economy was in very deep depression. 

Today, the quote is used by those under many circumstances where fear may grip our lives and some of those instances have nothing to do with the fear of a failing economy.

Quotes can take us in all different directions and are an integral part of our lives.  The comments indicate that in posting Mrs. Loving’s quote that the prevailing issue that was discussed was religion and sexuality.  It was a very intense thread but I learned a lot and that is what life is really about. 

Love people,

Rina Risper

This was printed in the July 17, 2011 - July 30, 2011 Edition

 

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